On the publication day of her new book, The Next Day: Transitions, Change, and Moving Forward, Melinda French Gates and Rt. Hon. Dame Jacinda Ardern headlined ELLE’s Women of Impact event with an honest and eye-opening conversation about leadership, guilt, and motherhood.
“Having met them I can say that they are both warm and welcoming and exemplify the idea that a leader can be both incredibly powerful and also incredibly kind—this is exactly what we had in mind when we created Women of Impact,” said ELLE editor-in-chief Nina Garcia in her introductory remarks. “We wanted to recognize women who were using their power and their energy to make positive change for all the generations to come.”
On the power of female friendships
Melinda French Gates: With my female friends over the years, I can speak my truth first to them, even when I have barely admitted it to myself. If have the courage to speak it to them, then I can speak it to a slightly smaller group of females, then a bigger group and a bigger group, and then you start to learn that your experience is pretty similar to other people’s. But that’s where I find the courage, with my female friends, to name what is truly going on.
On needing kindness in leadership
Jacinda Ardern: For so long we’ve been fighting and continue to fight to see diversity in leadership, such as more women. We don’t necessarily then hold the expectation that we also see diversity in the styles and the nature and different qualities and diverse qualities of that leadership. Those who have been elected often, those who seem to be successful, they have a particular set of traits and then we equate that occupation with those set of traits. I would love to see more people break that mold, because it doesn’t matter just what we do when we’re elected, it matters how we do it. Gosh, are we seeing that now.
What do we teach our children? We don’t teach them how to be type A personalities who are aggressive, disregard the values of others, and are only out for yourself. Most people don’t teach their children that—we teach them kindness, generosity, empathy, and curiosity. We should expect that of our leaders.
MFG: I’ve definitely worked with men, male leaders, prime ministers, and presidents, where I could see their kindness and I could see their generosity. I was like, those are the ones I want to work with if I can, but I would say that for me, it’s also that I’ve started to learn that it’s so important in society that we tell our stories as females. You’re doing it. I’m doing it. Hillary’s done it over a very long period of time.
On listening to your inner voice
MFG: I was taught, thank goodness, to be ambitious, and I liked being ambitious as a woman. But then you go out in society and it’s not okay to be ambitious as a woman. You’re supposed to be kind, but you’re supposed to be ambitious, but you’re not supposed to be too much, or not enough…it was in spending more time in quiet and really learning to listen to my inner voice that I realized, at some point, [that] I needed to break out of some of those confines and even eventually out of the confines of the marriage that I was in.
On boundaries
MFG: When [my daughter Jenn] was little, she would often meet me at the back door with a book when I came back from a trip. I realized if I was too exhausted to sit on the floor and read her a book, something was wrong with me. I actually learned to put my yoga pants on, make sure I’d rested somewhere on the trip before I came home, or [else] I’m used up and I’m not of service as a parent to my kids.
JA: It’s really interesting to me that when we ask the question of ourselves over whether or not we’re making the right decision—juggling multiple roles and caring for our children, we don’t give ourselves a lot of grace. Yet when we think about what do I want for my daughter, I want her to have choices, and I want her being comfortable juggling all those things, that we won’t give ourselves that grace.
On service and growing up religious
JA: Sometimes I find it hard to differentiate between just a natural inclination towards service and what I’ve been taught, but also sometimes just where that sense of responsibility or guilt might hold me back as well. I was raised Mormon and I left the Mormon church in my twenties, which was very difficult. When you talk about things that I had to put on a page, that was it for me. I still cannot tell you where my inclination towards service began or ended with my religious upbringing. To be honest, it doesn’t matter to me, because it’s part of my values and if it came from my religion, fantastic. It’s important to me now. I got to a place where it’s who I am and my religion was part of that.
MFG: I believe everybody has something to give back. Even my allowance, I gave something back when I was young. But in my level of wealth, nobody needs the kind of wealth I have, and so I feel like I have a responsibility and I want to give it back well in service of others. I know it’s not guilt, because [one of my friends] is religious, and she always talks about being used up by her service, and I finally said to her one day, “That’s not me.” I’m not going to be used up at the end of my life by the service I’ve given. I want to be of service to the world, but I don’t want to be used up by it.
Below, take an exclusive look inside the event.
